Revisiting the Adam-SGD Gap in LLM Pre-Training: The Role of Large Effective Learning Rates
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arXiv
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| Autori principali: | , , , |
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| Natura: | Preprint |
| Pubblicazione: |
2026
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| author | Glentis, Athanasios Li, Dawei Yau, Chung-Yiu Hong, Mingyi |
| author_facet | Glentis, Athanasios Li, Dawei Yau, Chung-Yiu Hong, Mingyi |
| contents | It is widely believed that stochastic gradient descent (SGD) performs significantly worse than adaptive optimizers such as Adam in pre-training Large Language Models (LLMs). Yet the underlying reason for this gap remains unclear. In this work, we attribute a large part of the discrepancy to SGD's inability to sustain learning rates comparable to Adam's much larger effective learning rates. Through empirical and theoretical analysis of LLM pre-training dynamics, we identify that training is characterized by small gradient norms and large weight-to-gradient ratios, an effect that becomes more pronounced with larger batch sizes typical in pre-training, necessitating such large effective learning rates. However, we find that output-layer gradient magnitudes become highly uneven across token classes, and that large gradient spikes frequently occur during training. Together, these effects severely restrict the admissible learning rate of SGD. Guided by this understanding, we show that simple clipping mechanisms that stabilize SGD at large learning rates enable it to recover most of Adam's performance. In our large-scale experiments, the validation loss gap between large-learning-rate SGD and Adam shrinks from more than 50% to only about 3.5% when pre-training a 1B-parameter LLaMA model with a 1M-token batch size. |
| format | Preprint |
| id |
arxiv_https___arxiv_org_abs_2605_17787 |
| institution | arXiv |
| publishDate | 2026 |
| record_format | arxiv |
| spellingShingle | Revisiting the Adam-SGD Gap in LLM Pre-Training: The Role of Large Effective Learning Rates Glentis, Athanasios Li, Dawei Yau, Chung-Yiu Hong, Mingyi Machine Learning It is widely believed that stochastic gradient descent (SGD) performs significantly worse than adaptive optimizers such as Adam in pre-training Large Language Models (LLMs). Yet the underlying reason for this gap remains unclear. In this work, we attribute a large part of the discrepancy to SGD's inability to sustain learning rates comparable to Adam's much larger effective learning rates. Through empirical and theoretical analysis of LLM pre-training dynamics, we identify that training is characterized by small gradient norms and large weight-to-gradient ratios, an effect that becomes more pronounced with larger batch sizes typical in pre-training, necessitating such large effective learning rates. However, we find that output-layer gradient magnitudes become highly uneven across token classes, and that large gradient spikes frequently occur during training. Together, these effects severely restrict the admissible learning rate of SGD. Guided by this understanding, we show that simple clipping mechanisms that stabilize SGD at large learning rates enable it to recover most of Adam's performance. In our large-scale experiments, the validation loss gap between large-learning-rate SGD and Adam shrinks from more than 50% to only about 3.5% when pre-training a 1B-parameter LLaMA model with a 1M-token batch size. |
| title | Revisiting the Adam-SGD Gap in LLM Pre-Training: The Role of Large Effective Learning Rates |
| topic | Machine Learning |
| url | https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.17787 |